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Why Would the Feds Buy This Controversial Item?

Why Would the Feds Buy This Controversial Item?

Law enforcement buying ammo is not news. Even the Feds buying lots of ammo is not news. I mean, you can make an argument that they are the Feds and are purchasing for their employees across the country (and we have a big country). What is alarming is the type of ammo that they are buying.

Why would the Feds need to buy 95,000 more rounds of hollow points?

Of course, they’ll tell you that it is to stop terrorists or some other atrocity. And we can argue back and forth about that, but hollow points aren’t for the purpose of just stopping someone from doing something so that you can then arrest them, try them, go through due process, etc. They are for the purpose of injuring someone badly enough that they cannot attack you. How often do you actually hear of someone physically attacking a police officer or (and maybe, especially) a Federal agent, such as ATF?

Which makes this whole idea suspect because, as this article points out, hollow points are

“an expanding bullet with a hollow tip designed for “maximizing tissue damage and blood loss or shock,” according to an online explanation.”

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So Federal law enforcement wants to “maximize tissue damage and blood loss?” Who are they afraid of? Frankly, it’s probably you and me and the fact that we are willing to opt out of their system of control.

What do you think? Tell us in the comments below.

View Comments (132)
  • I don’t know why but I have a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that says its not for know terrorist.

  • Like most things the Feds do, this is very secretive. Hollow point ammo is illegal to use in war, as per the Geneva Convention. So they have it to possibly use against American citizenry? Hollow point ammo will not penetrate even thin metal, such as a car door. One thought is that they are buying up supplies to keep it unavailable.

  • Historically, governments, when left to their own devices, will do everything possible to take complete control of the individual citizen. That was the main reason why our founding fathers enacted the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. These documents were not intended to limit the rights of the individual citizens, but were intended to limit the rights of government. Unfortunately, over the years our elected representatives, along with their court appointees, have done everything in their power to destroy those limitations on the government that are stated in our Constitution. You don’t have to be a law professor to understand the language used in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. These documents were written in common language so that all citizens could understand the meaning. Obviously, the framers of the Constitution could have use Latin phrases or Legalese language in their drafting of these documents if they only wanted law professors to understand their meaning, but they did not, they used common language and common terminology. The federal government has very few jobs allocated to them by our Constitution. They have the obligation to lay and collect taxes for the purpose of establishing a military for the protection of the country and to regulate commerce among the various states. That did not include raising a private army to control the U.S. citizens, nor did it grant authority to regulate how any individual business can operate. It can easily be argued, as a for instance, that the regulations set forth by OSHA, as well as establishing OSHA itself, went beyond constitutional authority. The government, under the guidelines set forth in our Constitution, have and are completely overstepping the restrictions on government action set forth in the Constitution. This article only suggests that this is one instance in which this was done. Politicians tend to be or become criminals who use their positions for their own wealth accumulation and power. It is we the people of this country who have the responsibility to keep these parasites under control and make them do their jobs properly. This has been allowed to go unsupervised for way too long and must be reversed if we are to survive as a free society.

  • Historically, governments, when left to their own devices, will do everything possible to take complete control of the individual citizen. That was the main reason why our founding fathers enacted the Constitution of the United States and the Bill of Rights. These documents were not intended to limit the rights of the individual citizens, but were intended to limit the rights of government. Unfortunately, over the years our elected representatives, along with their court appointees, have done everything in their power to destroy those limitations on the government that are stated in our Constitution. You don’t have to be a law professor to understand the language used in our Constitution and Bill of Rights. These documents were written in common language so that all citizens could understand the meaning. Obviously, the framers of the Constitution could have use Latin phrases or Legalese language in their drafting of these documents if they only wanted law professors to understand their meaning, but they did not, they used common language and common terminology. The federal government has very few jobs allocated to them by our Constitution. They have the obligation to lay and collect taxes for the purpose of establishing a military for the protection of the country and to regulate commerce among the various states. That did not include raising a private army to control the U.S. citizens, nor did it grant authority to regulate how any individual business can operate. It can easily be argued, as a for instance, that the regulations set forth by OSHA, as well as establishing OSHA itself, went beyond constitutional authority. The government, under the guidelines set forth in our Constitution, have and are completely overstepping the restrictions on government action set forth in the Constitution. This article only suggests that this is one instance in which this was done. Politicians tend to be or become criminals who use their positions for their own wealth accumulation and power. It is we the people of this country who have the responsibility to keep these parasites under control and make them do their jobs properly. This has been allowed to go unsupervised for way too long and must be reversed if we are to survive as a free society.

  • Yhea ok Isis is at our front door sneaking I. Through our borders with Mexico these people don’t care for life so who should we fear the federal government or an Islamic terror group that wants all Americans to become what they are or die think about it well it’s also for protection may be from us or maybe war is coming to the U.S. and there preping for something bigger who knows but fellow brothers we need to be vigilant and be prepared for the worse.

  • I do not use anti-personnel munitions at the range, but hollow points are the ammo of choice for personal carry and all defensive situations. This is a lotta-to-do, about nothing!

  • They are for use within the US as they have been banned from use outside the US by International Treaty.

  • Mr. Rehders you are absolutely correct. FMJ for the range. JHP for home and self defense. I also find that JHP are more reliable when innocents might be down range of your attacker. Your last sentence is spot on. This slanted article is indeed much ado about nothing.

  • You expect any less from a lawless lying government, But look out, The people usually turn in to what ever thr government is.

  • I’d like to shove everyone of those up Obama arch like people who need to have a BM do. They remind me of Glycerin Suppositors. He would be in heaven in the beginning being gay but then rig them so they go off one and a time and watch his reaction then.

  • Fred & Mike – I am not quick to don a tin foil cap…..What are you saying? Comments about our use of FMJ & JHP are right on target. But think, think. think. The Feds are not buying billions of JHP for range practice. They cannot use JHP outside the country for war per international treaty. Where are they gonna use them???? During Vietnam & Cold war times, they doled out ONLY 50 rounds of 5.56mm standard ball for qualification at the range. I shot only 100 rounds in 4 years. JHP for domestic use? What are they going to shoot? Coyotes? Come on now friends! This lotta-to-do IS ABOUT SOMETHING!

  • Um… who the fuck cares!? I’m not a criminal so I’m not going to worry about it. I carry critical defense rounds for the same reason. If I have to use it, I dont want to just injure someone

  • The whole shebang is so corrupt its a wondr someone from “within” dont belch up the truth…the Admin has violated SO MANY covenants it makes the
    “Unaugural Address” a total sham, biggest B.S. even the bull could make.
    And its here & now, CONGRESS & SENATE – – do U have Ur ears on, mind switch working? What in hell are U there for? And yep, Feds are kinda -wettish right now..

  • Well, .22 Long rifle ammo is slowly coming back, perhaps this is the fed’s way to ration supplies. Hoard what is available. It can be used for money when (not if) the dollar crashes. Prepare now for the hard times that are coming. Store Water, Food & Ammo. Plant a garden, if you can. Study The Constitution!

  • The Feds have never been trust worthy.The reason they are buying so many hollow
    point bullets is because their are very few of them,and their are TENS OF MILLIONS OF US and they know we are armed to the teeth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    That’s why their friends the liberals are trying to take ours away from us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • #1; it’s the Hague Accords, not the Geneva Convention
    #2; hollow points most certainly WILL penetrate car sheet metal. I know because I’ve done it.
    Having said the above, I don’t particularly trust the feds either.

  • Any law enforcement purchasing hollow points is not controversial. The quantity might be, but hollow points are used because they are safer. They are safer because they do not ricochet nearly as bad as Full Metal Jacket(FMJ) rounds. Hollow points are also better because they are more likely to stop inside or at least dump more energy inside their intended target. Lastly, and this is not thought of much, but someone stopped with hollow points is actually more likely to survive because they don’t need to be shot as much as will FMJ to be stopped. FMJ has excellent killing power, but not great stopping power as they take longer for them to stop someone without a spinal cord or brain hit. Having to put 15 bullets through someone with FMJ, which means 30 holes in someone to stop them means they will probably die even if they were shot in a hospital. Shooting someone fewer times, but causing more damage per shot is easier for physicians to repair. Keep in mind that handguns of any caliber are inherently weak for stopping someone and bullets must be made to maximize their ability to cause damage because once you cross into lethal defense, stopping someone is all that needs to happen as quickly as possible.

  • Never mind the dangers foreign countries are to us. BEWARE of our own politicians and government! Anytime I see a politician near me, I just want to puke! They ARE the ENEMY! Our own government is our most formidable and dangerous enemy.

  • Well, dilly… evidently you care, because you took the time and trouble to respond with an “F” bomb expletive, mistaking this for an anti-social media site. Your contempt and lack of respect for the rest of us is on vivid display, here! The first thing I noticed is that you don’t have the courage to post using your real name, but hide behind a nom de plume. My advice to you… GROW UP!

  • No mention of what caliber this is. The billion-round order was .40 for the so-called “Department of Homeland Security” (Stalin and Hitler and Mao would envy such an innocent sounding name for their terror organizations!). One military analyst said that particular .40 is intended for short range killing, like what DHS would use to kill people in their houses.

    95,000 rounds for the feds? Sounds like a drop in the bucket to me. I am guessing this is about how much SEAL Team 6 would shoot in a week. But, I don’t know. Wish I had it, whatever it is, I would get the gun to fit. I would like that opportunity to improve! What really irritates me is that I have to contribute to arming and training these DHS terrorists who are targeting people who merely want to be free.

    Sincerely,
    David Parker

  • Long experience has taught me to never, ever trust Libturds with anything. They are especially dangerous when they run the government and beyond dangerous with the illegal alien Islamic Marxist Obummer in our WH. Never trust anything a Liberal run government says or does and only about 10% of what a Republican run government says or does. With the womanizer, drunk incompetent Boner and the incompetent Turtle-Face, Limp-Dick McConnell in charge of the House and Senate, we cannot even trust the Republicans either.

  • You are absolutely spot on with your assessment of government. At the point we find ourselves, after decades of illegal and unconstitutional infringements, what do we do? During the Civil War the Union Army existed to protect the government itself; meaning all the politicians that made up the government. The Civil War had nothing to do with protecting the citizens. That is probably still true today. If “we the people” marched on Washington D.C., “we the people” would be the ones to be arrested or killed instead of the real criminals infecting D.C.. To save the country it’s the overreaching government that needs to be prosecuted. That is what the colonists lead by George Washington did to the government of King George.

  • As soon as they cause enough racial violence so that the DOJ can take control of more local police departments under the phony “racist” accusations, they will be ready.

  • 95,000 rounds is just for use for testing purposes is am guessing. the FBI has also issued requests for new handguns for testing purposes, along with new training pistols. Since the DOJ employs 40,000 armed personnel (June 2012 Justice Department Report – in 2008 there are 120,000 full time armed federal officers in 73 agencies, with 40,000 being in DOJ). That would be less than 3 bullets per armed DOJ employee. The DOJ and FBI are looking into changing from the more powerful .40 handgun to the 9mm. Both of which use the hollowpoints, along with 99% of local law enforcement. The 9mm offers more accuracy (less innocents shot), reduced cost of ammo, longer life of the handguns, easier to shoot for smaller employees and according to a recent report by FBI the 9mm is equally effective in stopping threats. Of course they are looking to get something with maximum stopping power, if your life was on the line, would you want to use something with the minimum stopping power? Reporters try to sensationalize these purchases when the headline could have just as easily been “DOJ purchases bullets for a less powerful, more accurate handgun”. But where is the fun in that kind of logic?

  • I agree with this. The problem is no matter how much you tell most people they don’t believe it!

  • I see that reality escapes some people. Officers are attacked on a daily basis. Their ability to defend themselves should not be limited because of those wearing blinders. Before you comment further, please try to become an officer. Put the uniform on and enter into the public eye as Ill equipped as you would like. I’m sure the real officers would enjoy the humor.

  • The reason they are buying up this ammo is a simple matter of supply and demand. They have regulated bullit manufacturing and in order to bring the regulation into play they need to eliminate the existing inventory. This way new manufacturing will be against the new regulation. They are using our dollar to limited our right to bear arms, at least affordably. Scumbags.

  • I disagree with your assessment of the government motive. I admit that I am in law enforcement but the reason we use hollow point ammunition is not to use against law abiding citizens. My reasons are these: 1. a hollow point is less likely to over penetrate a target and harm something other than the target. 2. a hollow point is more likely to stop the threat which is the whole point of shooting someone or some thing. If an officer is justified in using deadly force, then deadly force is what should be used.

  • Hello Jim, Just for info, I did the job of police officer and police supervisor for over 20 years in a very urban area that suffered from many gang related problems. I have also served time in the active military and I have studied the Constitution and hold educational degrees, including a law degree. My comments on the constitutionality of our governments actions over the years is, in my opinion, factual and to the point. Sorry that you either misinterpreted what I said or are just uninformed.

  • Jim, I too went to the school of higher learning . Majored in criminal justice. Four years in the Corp with two purple hearts. 41 years as a LEO certified as a state instructor, over 20 years as a firearms instructor. I do not consider myself as uninformed. Now, after saying that, it seems that my comment was intended for another statement which indicated that police offices are not assaulted. Sorry for the confusion.

  • I spent 10-1/2 years as a CBP Officer; we carried Glock 9mm pistols the first 5 years I was there and HK USP 2000k chambered in .40 SW. In both guns we carried Jacketed Hollowpoint ammo in both guns. We also used the same ammo quarterly when we trained; averaging 100 rounds per session. Two hundred officers, 4 times a year, 100 rounds every time equals 80,000 rounds fired; that doesn’t include the 10,600 rounds carried total while on duty. Just within CBP there are approximately 20,000 armed officers; that’s well over 8 million rounds a year just for CBP.

    Many of the contracts are IDIQ Contract meaning a not to exceed X quantity during Y time frame.

    True there are a lot of bullets being bought and a lot of federal LE Agencies it’s not a surprise to me – but I spent 41 years in uniform; 30 of it in the military.

    I’m not defending the purchases or the direction of the government; just trying to explain some numbers.

  • GENeva convention requires FMJ, no hollow points allowed they are deemed cruel and unusual punishment.

  • Alan is right about the ‘authorized’ use of HP ammunition. Within the U.S. is the only place these HP rounds can be used and still be in compliance with International law. I can’t imagine these Politically-Correct, New World Order-supporting bureaucrats violating international treaty provisions by using these rounds anywhere else.

    But my viewpoint on the 95k rounds is that that number is being used, as if it were a large number, just to arouse the outrage of the uninformed. 95,000 rounds is not much more than many large gun shops have on hand; I know individuals (granted – not many of them) that have this much ammunition in their own private stock.

    When we go to a weekend training session (especially if we have any other family members or friends with us) we can go through over a thousand rounds in one day. 95,000 rounds is too paltry an amount to get excited over.

  • Tim –
    Thanks for explaining the numbers for those who are not aware of the magnitude we are talking about.

  • @David Parker. As a retired Uniformed Officer of CBP/DHS the .40 S&W hollow-point is the issued carry round and is also used as the training round – it makes common sense to train with what you carry – ballistics/performance, etc.

    A CBP Officer carries in his gun 1 chambered round and 12 in the magazine plus 2 spare 12 round magazines – for 37 carried rounds. Add 100 rounds per officer per quarter the multiply 437 times 20,000, the number of armed, uniformed CBPOs.

    The “billion rounds” contract is an IDIQ (Indefinite Delivery, Indefinite Quantity) procurement – it means that during the life of the contract (however long) it won’t exceed a billion total rounds.

    Prior to carrying the .40 S&W we carried the 9mm JHP.

  • Hollow point bullets are what most people, including governmental organizations should use most of the time, except for practice.
    1- They do more damage to your target so there the threat stops sooner
    2- Since one would usually need fewer bullets to stop the threat, there are fewer shots to go off-course and hit bystander.
    3- They usually penetrate a target less than a “pointy” bullet, again giving them less chance of hitting bystanders.

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