You Won’t Believe Who Now Has the Power to Revoke Your Passport (It’s Not the DHS)

Here’s a scary thought: the idea that some administrative officer can arbitrarily choose to make you a virtual prisoner in your country in that you can’t (legally) leave.

Well, that is the case in the U.S.

It’s true. The IRS can now revoke the passports of American citizens. L.J. Devon writes,

“Americans are trapped in a birdcage. This is especially true now that Congress is granting the IRS the authority to rescind personal passports to keep citizens confined in the country[…].

That’s right: the Internal Revenue Service will soon be prohibiting people from traveling as free human beings. If an individual is unable or unwilling to pay the amount of money the IRS has determined to take from them, then that individual may not be allowed to travel outside the U.S. This measure has been passed by Congress as part of the highway bill. The bill is intended to force individuals to pay their ‘seriously delinquent tax debts.'”

In other words, if you don’t cough up the money that they say that you owe, then they can prevent you from leaving, thus virtually forcing you to work and pay to them what they say (because you have to work to survive).

And, remember, because it’s the IRS, you may never regain that permission to leave. The IRS doesn’t have a reputation for being very understanding or forgiving.

Now, I’m not suggesting that you break laws so disappear across the boarder to escape the increasingly oppressive police state that we ar living under, but you may want to consider ways to disappear and fly under the radar so that they never becomes an issue for you.

What do you think about the IRS’s new passport-revoking power? Tell us below.

 
 

  • John Siemens

    Tyranny! It is not the business of the IRS. It should only be revoked by a federal court based violation of laws enacted by congress.

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      Even now, there is a proper mechanism to do so. It’s the IRS tax court where at least one can challenge, somewhat, an IRS action or assessment.

      Personally, if it’s challenged and goes to the supreme Court, it SHOULD be found unconstitutional. Of course I wouldn’t put money on it.

  • Alan404

    My late father used to say that the thing Ioved above all else was the sound of my own voice. Notwithstanding opinions to the contrary, the phases of the moon and or the tides, re this power supposedly granted to the IRS, WORDS FAIL ME

  • regulus30

    the IRS must be dismantled ASAP. obammie has made them his enforcers and we the people must make them feckless.

    • mjhiggs

      Looks like you will probably be audited. (lol) Sadly, the threat of an audit has a chilling effect on free speech.

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      We could start by repealing the 16th Amendment setting up the federal income tax. It’d also eliminate the FED. About the only way to achieve this is by the States calling for an Article V Convention as the SCOTUS and Congress will never act.

      I’d also like to see the 17th Amendment repealed and the 14th rewritten. I’d mention repealing the 19th, but then I’d get in trouble. 😉

  • Athanasios1

    Put whatever you owe on a credit card… and never come back or pay off the credit card.

  • Norm

    This is what our country is all about, give a power happy entity like the IRS even more power to destroy our so called free country.

  • John Doe

    I go to my job everyday. I pay taxes. If you don’t pay your taxes?……They have a right to not let you travel outside the USA. There’s two things my grandfather told me. 1. You’re going to die 2. You will pay your taxes. Why should the majority of Americans pay our taxes and a few dirt bags think they don’t have to?….If they don’t?….Take away their means of leaving the country…Only heartburn I have is what about all of the illegal aliens that work under the radar?,,,,,do they pay their taxes?????Good Job IRS…..

    • USSA?

      If the IRS was a federal agency I might agree with you to a point, but it isn’t. The IRS is a private business hired by the Dept. of Treasury per Title 31 U.S.C. WAKE UP John Doe!!! You are why we are losing our CONSTITUTIONAL FREEDOMS on a daily basis.

      http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Evidence/OrgAndDuties/IRSPrivateCorp-20070630.pdf

      • John Doe

        Wake up?….Point is, there’s nothing you or I am going to do about this situation…..I know what I can do…Lock And Load……And be ready..protect my perimeter….And when someone crosses that line to do harm against my family?…A whole lot of hurt is going to come down upon them…That Sir, is what I can control…OOrah!!!!!!!!!!

    • litebulb2

      I guess Rev. Al not-so-Sharpton can’t leave the country….

      • mjhiggs

        There are exceptions for certain people, especially friends of Obama. It’s called Black Privilege!

      • John Doe

        Cleaver…..Wayyyyy Nice!!!!

  • tax man

    There should be no IRS. Enact the FairTax and get rid of the IRS and make taxes fair to all Americans and collect taxes from illegals, drug dealers and criminals! Everyone pays their fair share based on spending not earning!

    • John Doe

      Well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      Or the Flat Tax. We need to get rid of the progressive tax scheme that isn’t about raising necessary revenue to operate a CONSTITUTIONAL government, but rather a social engineering PROGRESSIVE government.

      • guestimate

        Or the APT, automated payment tax, where a fraction of a % is taken from all USD money transfers, int’l & domestic.

        • Roberto Enrique Benitez

          I’m not real familiar with the APT. Is it not based on Keynesian Economic theory?

          I do believe whether we have a flat rate, fair tax, or graduated tax system, we must eliminate the loopholes in the system.

          • guestimate

            Prof. Feige of UW Wisconsin proposed it, basically makes banks collection agents for the tax on all money transfers, wire, cc purchases, etc. A fraction of a percent but based on volume, really adds up. The only people who hate the idea are Wall St. bankers and traders who earn fractional spreads. It’s virtually painless for everyone else, no more paperwork to file, and everyone pays.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Thanks for the further information. How would it apply to cash transaction such a purchases for food, clothes, and such?

          • guestimate

            ALL purchases and ALL money transfers, including the buying and selling of stocks, commodities, FX, or just moving bank-to-bank. The latter is probably why the idea has probably remained off the radar so long, bankers & brokers hate it for cutting into their profits, but it’s quite fair, rich & poor would pay, a fraction of a percent. It’s the total volume of money flow that makes it work. In 1995, $555 Trillion passed through the FRB of NY. It’s probably much more now, but if USD loses reserve currency status, all bets are off.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Thanks for the info. Would you then support a flat of fair tax or do you think the APT would be sufficient to support government operations, particularly if the government were once again confined to the Constitutional limitations?

          • guestimate

            I don’t like a flat or fair tax because it penalizes essential consumption, which drives commerce. Maybe if food were exempt. I still prefer the APT because the bite is proportionately smaller and based on total volume of dollars exchanged. The wealthy prefer the flat tax while the poor would prefer the APT; both have their reasons and interests.

            The Constitution, that’s a mouthful. It presumes some bucolic past when life was warm & fuzzy, but it was never that way for everyone, for natives, slaves, women or children, the weak, old, sick or dissenfranchised.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Wouldn’t an APT mainly affect the wealthy, leaving most of the people with no skin in the game except to get the CENTRAL government to give them more benefits? The reason I like a flat tax is it can be devised to allow exemptions and floors so those near the poverty line can avoid paying taxes. That means closing loopholes and most shelters. If only the wealthy should pay taxes, then wouldn’t you agree only those who pay taxes should be allowed to vote as it’ll be their money spent by the government?

            I’m sorry, but “Progressive” is here to stay although most Left leaning liberals and Fabian socialists dislike the word. Yet they coined it and ran such parties around the 1900s.

            Progressive doesn’t mean progress although most Leftists try to portray it that way. It stands for centralized state control and planning using fascism to further its goals, It’s stands for big government and taxation for social engineering and socialist goals.

            By the way, most people haven’t a clue what fascism is. Fascism is an economic model in which the STATE dictates the allocation of privately held assetts to achieve public policy goals. It’s not the sound of jack boots in the street, but much of the time leads to that.

            As for the Constitution, believe it or not, it’s not static. But then most don’t know what Article 3 Clause 3 states. Also, the Constitution didn’t come from some bucolic Pollyanna past; rather it came out of WAR and discord between the States under a failing Articles of Confederation. It survived, barely, and was modified during and after a Civil Disagreement that was hardly a Sunday picnic.

            Do you think it’s not relevant and should be discarded? Do you believe in a “Progressive”, i.e., socialist nanny welfare one-party centralized state, i.e., a tyranny? Do you believe those who aren’t citizens, particularly who’re here illegally, are unfairly disenfranchised? I hope not.

            As for a “regressive” government, that’s not what we need, although I suspect from YOUR TONE that’s a euphemism for conservative constitutional republican government. Frankly, what’s needed is a CONSTITUTIONAL government that’s smaller, less intrusive, less financially irresponsible, less militarily adventurous, less addicted to crony capitalism, and more responsible about its FIRST duty of protecting our borders and the SECOND of guarding the rights and benefits of AMERICAN citizens. Our current lawless rouge regime doesn’t fit that bill, nor will Hillary’s.

          • guestimate

            APT would affect everyone in as much as it would be deducted from ALL purchases and money transfers. The poor would pay as much as the wealthy, based on spending habits, but the wealthy would also pay whenever they made an investment AND took gains. There wouldn’t be any loop-holes, the banks acting as collection agents, couldn’t distinguish the nature of payments, only in & out/flow. Because of the VOLUME of payments the tax would be small. Only the wealthy would gripe with an APT. Because everyone pays, everyone who’s a citizen has the right to vote. It also does away with the class envy, shelters, what-have-you. Whenever USD passes through FRBNY, it gets nicked.

            Well if Progressive means what you say it does then I think “regressive” is appropriate for some political camps as well. I’m not advocating for gay rights or open borders, but I do support humanitarian aid to citizens whose livelihoods were negatively affected by globalism, in form of ‘welfare’ payments, especially given it was our elected politicians who opened the barn door to those companies leaving, by signing free-trade agreements with countries who use slave labor, lowering the bar for both wages and human rights. I would say that Progressivism makes good and positive arguements and then falls back into lame agendas and perverse side-tracks, but regressives do the same, for them is more about crony self-dealing at the cost of the regimented sheeple. Anyway I don’t believe in forcing people to document their job-search to justify a govt check, when the jobs are mostly gone. Bring on the robots to put even more of US out of work, then redesign the value & payment system to express what we-the-people always wanted, more free time to do as we please, not be shackled to and for the benefit of someone else’s privately owned work station. There’s a reason the natives were rounded up and put on reservations, they didn’t follow white man’s regimented, slavish culture.

            I grew up in the 60’s & 70’s under fairly conservative parents, I despised the stricture & structure, freedom was absent, work-ethics were peer enforced, not voluntary or idealistically driven. People were more interested in taking than receiving what a person had to offer. In that sense I think probably little has changed, and yes, it matters.

            There are flavors of fascism just like any other economic ism. I think your definition of it matches closer to Communism, which actually works when it’s voluntary. (Israeli kibbutz.) Personally I think we were very close to a tyrannical NWO state under GWB and I believe 9/11 was an inside job to take our liberties away, at least it worked out that way, so well. Two steps forward, one step back. One form of fascism is where government colludes with business to the cost of citizen rights. Frankly I feel I’ve been living under a pro-business, soft fascism my whole life. Every step, every vote made by either camp, and industry as well, seems to dissempower consumer-citizens while making US ever more vulnerable and dependent to any/every catastrophe, including those created by such a trend.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Now that explanation of APT makes sense. I believe everyone should have skin in the game. So if you make more you pay more, on ALL sources of income including the investments you mention. Thanks for that explanation.

            I’ll agree with you that sectors of conservatives are regressive. I’ve had conversations with some who’re VERY regressive, namely the Dominionists who want to return politically to an early 1600s colonial style theocracy where only Christians, and they imply white Anglo-Saxon Protestants would be allowed citizenship and any rights under a constitution, preferably one somewhat like the Articles of Confederation, but with distinct declarations it only benefits Christians. All others such as Jews, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, Hispanics, Asians, and Black would be deported or put in gulags. Some Hispanics and Blacks would be allowed to stay, but only as slaves.

            I like your mentioning of the problem of our politicians chasing away companies and thereby reducing the number jobs which harms our citizens.
            As you mention with “regressives,” it’s often crony-capitalism, but I think the Leftist progressives in charge today are doing much the same. Crony capitalism is a bipartisan effort. But to be blunt, I’m a free market economy capitalist with true contract law. If that means there’s no free ride for either rich or poor, so be it. As the Scriptures state, if you won’t work, you don’t eat. And before you take umbrage, it also address the issues of those who can’t work or work wasn’t available. I believe that’s a very valid concern.

            I’m glad that you recognized that fascism is connected to communism. I believe that the linear chart with fascism on the right and Marxism on the left is inaccurate. I like ted to like a cartesian chart system. Also, you comment about a kibbutz also describes the early communal church. When they were voluntary they were great. But as society became larger and more complex, they became impractical. As you imply, in trying to address the complexity, we gave up or had taken from us our essential liberties, until we were little more than serfs practically owned by the great landowners. But men like Thomas Hobbes, John Locke, Jean-Jacques Rousseau, Adam Smith, Edmund Burke, and the Baron de Montesquieu came along, leading to the Magna Carta and eventually the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

            As for 9/11, I find the belief that it was an inside job by Bush to be far fetched. True believers make too many unfounded suppositions. As for your description of what you’ve been living under and the possible danger, I really can’t find fault with what you said. Whether it’s in one form or another, you make a good point about it. Still, I wish you had said whether or not you viewed the Constitution as relevant to today’s America and why, either way. Maybe an unfair question as either of us could probably write a thesis on the matter. 😉

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            I wouldn’t say politicians chased jobs away, but they opened the door to let it happen, which I guess is called freedom, but they didn’t need to incentivize it or legalize it with bully nations like China. The globalists say Americans wanted too much, too msny regulations, but America was an environmental disaster back in the 60’s, only EPA regs helped clean it up, now China has the same problems, because rich brats never mind, making messes wherever they go.

            There are some good websites that explain very well, the sociopathy of corporations/capitalism. Hobbes said “Life is nasty, brutish & short.” …but that’s only true when we give missanthropes the drivers seat. One MBA writer was quoted in a business rag, “From a cost perspective, taking what doesn’t belong to you is the cheapest way to go.” (Mineral exploration companies know this very well, as they wrest land from natives, with thugs, lawyers & eminent domain.) Another investor blog contributor: “It’s not about patriotism, it’s about profits.” and “Capital goes where it’s best treated.” None of this suggests any form of ethics, at all. The more you SEE HOW the system works, the less faith you have in it. I’d say the biggest evil of capitalism is private banking. We should have a national bank that makes loans so cheap to put private lenders out of business. Current mom-&-pop banks could get licenses to act as federal currency distribution kiosks. A good book on the evils of banking (if that needs explaining) is Jeffrey Marks’ book: “The Modern Idolatry” which was written over a century ago, still relevant.

            Paul said “He who does not work, shall not eat.” Jesus never said that, in fact he said “Feed the hungry” and demonstrated this numerous times by feeding crowds just for sitting through his sermons. If anything jesus advocated the free lunch; “See the sparrows, and the lillies, they neither spin nor sow, and yet the heavenly father takes care of them. Jesus didn’t have a regular job and he told Peter & James to quit their fishing enterprise to become itinerant bums on the lecture circuit; anyway, “work” is an ambiguous, ephemeral word people use to justify what they have. Investors hardly “work” when they borrow money from one place and put it in another (carry trade.) Humans predate upon and parasitize each other, it’s disgusting, and no I’m not talking about welfare cheats, unless you include the corporate kind. The fact is with industrialization, many jobs were lost, first in agriculture and now factories. Automation lets us overproduce, unfortunately much of that production is occurring under slave conditions. We don’t NEED to employ everyone, apart from some outdated values that call for it. What if Star-Trek “replicators” existed? Conservatives would lobby to make them illegal, for undermining character, destroying jobs, unfair competition or some other B.S. nonsense.

            The status quo will always argue for its own interests, but prior golden ages valued and ran things differently. The Constitution is a more recent document to restore human rights (which are forever under attack, not just by government, but by capitalists like those who brought slaves to America, and now use them in China), as we move from dark into light.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Hobbes was talking about the tyrannical systems that came out of the feudal systems. It was men like him who set us on a path to democracy and the free market system. However, like any system it’s been corrupted, I’d say quite severely. I’m sure you agree. Your comment about why corporations sent jobs overseas is a good analysis. Thanks. However, if you think socialism is any better or moral, you’re wrong. I cite Hitler’s Germany, the USSR and Communist China.

            Your comparison of what Paul and Jesus said sadly is a false one done out of a serious misunderstanding of the Scriptures. Jesus was talking about those who couldn’t get food because they couldn’t get jobs. Paul was talking about those who wouldn’t work because the believed they could play the system. We’ve many of those around today.

            So your taking Jesus’ words out of context is disingenuous. Let me ask, are you a Christian who believes in and tries to follow the New Testament? By the way, Jesus had a regular job as a carpenter supporting his mother and younger siblings to the age of 30, when He started his 3 year mission ending in His crucifixion. In those 3 years he didn’t rely on government handouts, but was supported by family and friends. It was quite common for itinerant rabbis and their disciples to be supported by followers and listeners. So I’d hardly call them bums.

            If you think investing is about getting free money, I must ask, are you a communist? I hope not. I’ll admit many investors game the system, cheat, or outright break laws, but that’s not what investing is all about, at least not to a true capitalist.

            For those who believe that people shouldn’t have to work for a living, I believe that they’re in fact communists (or bums) and it doesn’t surprise me if they’re also conspiracists who believe in 9/11 or that Star Trek implied food was free.

            So I have to assume you’ve never read much of the Bible or have seen all the Star Trek shows and movies. Both are great.

            So now I’ll offend you. (kidding)

            Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New year.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            Well my point is there’s never BEEN a truly “free market” anymore than there’s been a thing such as “pure capitalism,” because it’s essentially impure. To capitalize upon, means to take advantage of people and situations, and most often, it slouches to easiest methods and short-sighted outcomes that make big messes of the environment and benefits disproportionately, a few.

            Like I said, there are nuances and flavors of …isms, and I don’t feel the need to call myself anything in terms of identifying with any of them. As for socialism, it seems to arise organically and harmoniously in small, native communities until some key man enters the picture with some critical technology or other benefit that allows him to demand a lion’s share of resources, and that’s how acquisitive capitalism spoils pure & innocent socialism. At any rate and at some point the greed of capitalism must be reined in or it will despoil everything and make life impossible for the mountains of toxins and waste. What will it take to make industrialists and oligarchs into socially responsible citizens? Maybe the internet minions collectively expressing their displeasure?

            Actually I think my contrast between Paul & Jesus was fairly accurate. Paul was a usurper to Christ, a real attention-stealer. The Church of Jesus Christ was passed on to his biological brother, James-the Just, after His death. Then Paul comes around, who the disciples were afraid of, given his record of murdering believers. His vision was all he had to commend him, claiming Jesus gave him the commission to preach to the gentiles, as if Jesus wouldn’t have told his disciples to do so while He was alive? (Please.) Anyway, Paul single-handed redefined the Church as we know it, bringing in the big money contributors, making the church as wealthy as it is. He defined the “sacrifice of the mass,” “transubstantiation” (beyond my need to explain), lifted ceremonies and sacraments from Buddhism, then later abuses, the selling of indulgences, inquisitions and other unspeakable crimes for the Church’s power being unchecked.

            Jesus had carpenter skills but you really don’t know any more than me how long he practiced that craft. Some writers say he may have caught a camel caravan to the far east, Tibet, India, Egypt, to learn stuff, at least there are some records to suggest maybe that happened. You really only have St. Paul advocating that people have “jobs.” and again, with automation, we no longer need full employment. Never once did Jesus say people should go get jobs. And you have no idea how He supported Himself. A guy who can turn water into wine, stones into bread, multiply loaves & fishes, or tell you where the fish are feeding so “drop your nets there” or to go catch a fish with a gold-piece in its mouth, such a guy has resources beyond common folk. He said we could even greater things, too bad He didn’t say how.

            But getting back to “work,” it’s ambiguous and ephemeral. American settlers hated the natives for being wandering bums who lived off the land. What you’re arguing for/about is mere cultural preferences. Strong men will always take slaves unless an equally or stronger contingent prevents it, that’s the way it’s always been. The slave owners we call capitalists. Never such a thing as “pure” capitalism, that’s a bucolic mythos. Capitalists hate rules, prefer finding loop-holes and ways around them, or places they’re not enforced; and Human values, the reasons for which people spend money, are capricious at best. A person must necessarily be personally ‘liked’ by some patron(s), or provide a product or service that people ‘like.’ The marketplace so worshipped by capitalists, sure looks like social slavery to me, not sure I can tell the difference between it & socialism, but that capitalism lets a few become extraordinally greedy, fatuous and disproportionately rewarded, at the expense of everyone else.

            I think I read enough of the Bible to “get it,” the rich oppress the poor, and the poor cry to God for justice, and He here’s their cries. “The fruit of the field is for all” …From whom much has been given, much will be required” etc. Maybe that’s why the Son of Man chose to be born in a stable, to highlight the disparity, and whose side He’s really on.

            Merry Christmas to you & yours.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            I don’t think I ever read the fanciful “bible” you read and I doubt you’re ever read the real Bible. I don’t even think you know who Paul was. So tell me, where do you get all your conspiracy theories from?

          • guestimate

            You can doubt as much as you’d like, which is quite a lot, if you don’t believe I’ve read the Bible. Paul of Tarsus, a Roman citizen & tent-maker who persecuted Christians and claimed to’ve been knocked off a horse by a white light, identifying Itself as Jesus. Actually I’ve read more history of Christianity than most so-called believers (but especially Catholics) have an interest. I get my conspiracy “theories” by studying reality. BTW, conspiracy is a crime men commit against one another, not a theory. As for 9/11 Truth Movement, the web saves everything, archive.org is a good place to look, or Alex Jones

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            So now you think I’m saying if you believe in a conspiracy theory you’re committing a crime? That’s the ultimate conspiracy theory.

            Have a Merry CHRISTmas and my you have a Saul encounter on your personal road to Damascus.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            No, I’m saying people who do conspiracies are criminals. whether people know about or believe in any particular conspiracy is entirely different matter. I’ve already had my encounters and Saul had no part in them.

            Best regards to you

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Do you know the difference between a conspiracy theorist and a conspiracist? Also, do you know who Saul encountered on his way to Damascus?

          • guestimate

            Roberto: I haven’t bothered to look up the difference, why; are we splitting hairs? I along with many others believe 9/11 was an inside job and there’s plenty of evidence for persons who care to look.

            Saul ostensibly met Jesus as a blinding white light on the road to Damascus. He went on to become the seminal doctrinist of what Christianity is, to the gentiles. However James and the other disciples, who had direct experiences with jesus when He was alive, had a different understanding. Anyway if you’re such a believer in St. Paul then why aren’t you a Roman Catholic? And if you actually studied Church history I would ask you just why you were one! I believe “Christians” who follow St. Paul took a wrong turn.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            It’s not splitting hairs to know the difference, except perhaps to a conspiracy theorist. 😉 Just having fun on that.

            I realize many believe 9/11 was a government conspiracy. Yet there’re many more who’ve looked at the evidence and don’t believe so. I’m one of those.

            As to why I’m not a Roman Catholic, it’s because I’ve found too man of their doctrines to be biblically unsupported But are yo9u saying that to believe that Jesus us Yeshua Hamashiach, the one prophesied in the Old Testament, one has to be Catholic?

            By the way, my dad and my aunt and uncle were Catholic and when my dad remarried he went back to the Catholic Church, but I and my siblings never were Protestant, as was my grandfather. and mother.

            So let me ask you, are you Christian?

            Have a Merry Christmas

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            Maybe re: 9/11 you didn’t look at ALL the evidence (engineering reports, firemen testimonies, wreckage, etc.) because is too discomforting to consider the implications?

            As for the Roman Catholic church, it’s the closest organization to Christ! Founded by St. Paul, who you like! You don’t deny the Church committed abuses, but protest-ant-ism is one further step removed. You can’t pick & choose the truth, accepting only those parts of Paul whom you like. He interpreted Christianity to the gentiles, that was his contribution, either you buy it or not, the question is, WHY you buy it, or not. But the deeper question is why you so value what Paul has to say and not Jesus!

            Granted, much he (Paul) said IS “unbiblical, because he was a Roman and added Roman spin. Actually, later Constantine was most guilty of that, elevating Mary to “Queen of Heaven” (Roman deity.) The Trinity doctrine was hashed out at the Council of Nicea. Constantine called that convocation of bishops together, to bring their sacred writings under pain of death, to determine what future Church doctrine would be, because he was tired of having to use soldiers to break up Christians having street fights about their beliefs, when he was trying to hold the empire together at the outer fringes.

            Yes, I’m a Christian but not as you might define it. My studies have gone far beyond mainstream, I’ve studied other religions (except Islam, not much there.) My understanding of Jesus has changed from mainstream views. Let’s just say I think He was a prototype showing who we are and the way back home, that the universe is moral by design and nature, that humanity is fallen, that divine status is recoverable, but maybe not all in one lifetime.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Almost nobody, including you, has seen ALL the evidence claiming 9/11 was an inside job. So, have you seen ALL the evidence against that argument? I won’t patronizingly claim I have. However, I’ve seen a lot of the evidence, second hand, and I’m not convinced.

            You insinuate I don’t want to consider the possible implications your boogeyman, Bush, created a false flag operation to get us into a war or perhaps create a dictatorship. However, how much do you really know, first hand, about planes and plane crashes? So, what’s your political agenda?

            So tell me, do you also believe Bush was behind the Iranian earthquake and the Gulf hurricanes, including Katrina, using HAARP technology? Do you think he had the New Orleans dikes blown up so Darth Chaney could buy real estate from blacks on the cheap? Do you think he had a sub detonate a nuclear torpedo to cause the Indonesian tsunami? Do you think he stole 3 elections, one being the Mexican election? Did he cause the first shuttle disaster? Did he start a war with absolutely no provocation?

            As for your New World explanation I Jesus, I don’t buy it either. You claim to be a Christian, yet you deny the central teaching of Christianity. You may follow Him and His teachings in order to be a moral person, a very good thing, but that doesn’t make you a Christian, no more so than following Buddha makes you a a Jew of a Christian.

            May you find the Christ of the Scriptures.

          • guestimate

            I’ve seen enough evidence to conclude 9/11 was an inside job, way bigger than just GW, who merely served his role. Gary Hart, spokesperson for the CFR, said on national television, quoting Bush Sr’s quote before the UN security council “the opportunity (of using 9/11) to create a New world Order” which btw is a nazi term.

            My political agenda is freeing the mind of Americans from a real evil, removing virtual or actual bags placed over their heads. As for planes and plane crashes I defer to experts on those matters who also didn’t buy the official story line, who I learned from.

            9/11 was the convenient “New Pearl Harbor event” called for in the PNAC paper “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” which was their agenda for empire.

            Bush didn’t need to be behind the earthquakes and tsunamis mentioned. The fact is the global elite have a very real agenda for population reduction, it’s written on the Georgia Guidestones. If you don’t know what those are, look it up. Katrina was simply a convenient natural cause of mass death, recall how the government supinely responded by confiscating weapons.The real goal is forced vaccinations. Baxter vaccines got caught releasing product that contained live bird flu virus, thanks to a whistle-blower. Vaccine makers have managed to obtain legal immunity from the injury and death their products cause, ain’t capitalism great. Bankers and investor types like the Rockefellers and Rothschilds start wars and profit from both sides, all the time. Prescott Bush (grand-daddy) had ownership shares in a bank that was funding Hitler, Congress found out about it and found it necessary to shut it down in order to win the war. Prescott was a Congressman at that very time. Wars are necessary to keep military industrial complex families housed & fed. It’s a racket to be sure. Ordinance must be dropped to be remade or it builds up.

            Actually I think Christ has helped me quite a lot, to see real, man-made causations in this world. Sufficient unto the day, is the evil thereof. Revelations is all about the mess that businessmen make of this world, the plagues (vaccinations and military released super-bugs), the environmental disasters like Fukushima, turning the oceans to wormwood (which is what Chernobyl means) and other devastations, toxic waste, (yes, even haarp-induced earthquakes, if you read the patents, or watch youtube videos that include video comments by the inventor.) I don’t deny Christ’s teachings, I deny Paul’s.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            You may be convinced 9/11 was an inside job but others aren’t. However, I’d like to see your source for Bush’s quote on using 9/11 to create a NWO. You say you defer to experts. Fine. I rely on other experts as well, along with my experiences in the aviation field. But I don’t disparage those who believe differently as having been bought out. That’s an almost universal accusations by those in your camp with a sense of superior intelligence, diligence, and/or patriotism.

            By the way, the term “New World Order” started during the Progressive Era that included WWI, well before the Nazis used it. It’s been used to outline establishing a new political paradigm to cope with changing world conditions. Others, as you imply, have more nefarious plans. Yet there’ve always been megalomaniacs who’ve had a vision of world conquest and there’ll always be until the last days. No doubt some have been Americans.

            You slyly sided stepped questions I asked, so I’ll put it another way. Did Bush or someone handling him cause the tragedies I outlined? By the way, what governmental unit confiscated weapons in New Orleans? Was it ever adjudicated and if so do you know what the results were?

            Regarding the tragedies, I suppose you believe many elites believe they were for the good by reducing the human population, but not enough. I’d agree. While many aren’t so radical as to want to reduce humanity to around a half million, many want to reduce it to under half a billion, a little less than the population of N. America. Most also want to reduce the European population to zilch as they believe Anglo-Saxons are the cause of most of the world’s problems. Of course they don’t include themselves. The New Age stone you mentioned calls for a very select elite, likely themselves. Have you ever heard of Dr. Pianka, who advocated reducing the population by 90% by introducing a plague type virus? Still, I don’t see how Katrina, Pianka, and what the New Orleans police did equals forced vaccinations or draconian population control. It seems you’re all over the place without tying claims together.

            Also, I don’t see how pharmaceutical companies getting favored treatment by government is an example of capitalism at work. Just the opposite, it’s an example of socialism/fascism at work. Or are you saying that it’s capitalism at work by the mere existence of non-government own pharmaceutical companies?

            Your example of Prescott Bush and his involvement with Union Bank I believe is incorrect. Bush was one of seven directors and the bank was seized by the government during the war. It had done business in Germany through a Swiss company owned by Fritz Thyssen. So the left has accused not only Prescott of being a Nazi supporter at best and an outright Nazi art worst, but have made the same accusations against both Bush Senior and Junior. Of course the Left also said the Terminator was a Nazi because his father had been forced to join Nazi youth groups. However, they refuse to acknowledge Mr. Obama was mentored by a card carrying communist who was also a pedophile.

            It’s true banks have been behind many conflicts and have often funded both sides. But I get the feeling you’d shut down banks, capitalism, and the military due to some belief that would end conflicts. I believe that’s quite naive, but then I must admit I might have a bias as I’m a retired military man, you know, one of those steely eyed baby killers Mr. Obama’s regime claims are Bible and gun owning potential domestic terrorists.

            By the way, are you one of those who believe that the CERN experiments will end the world as some of those who criticize HAARP believe it could?

            One last question, what do you believe was Jesus’ most important teaching?

          • guestimate

            There’s video footage of Bush Sr. speaking before the UN Security council advocating for a NWO, I’m sure you can find it if you search it out. Gary Hart referenced it on national news when he spoke for the CFR following 9/11, as “the opportunity to create a NWO.” GW was notified by someone who hurried in, whispering in his ear as he sat in a children’s classroom full of kids, reading from the book “My Pet Goat” and holding the book upside down. This may seem immaterial and trite, in the over-all scheme, it is, but is also how these elite communicate. The goat is symbol of Satan, holding the book upside down, doubly so. Bush didn’t move, react or flinch.

            Lots of engineering studies were done, firemen radioing, hearing bombs going off in the buildings. Interviews with firemen in their fire-houses, corroborating. Those sounds were demolition charges set days or even weeks before. The twin towers were built to withstand direct plane crashes. There have been many towering infernos that didn’t pancake collapse in their own footprint in pieces so small as to be easily hauled away and sold off to the chinese steel scrap market before a proper crime-scene investigation could be done. Molten pools of metal for weeks afterwards, also suggest thermite cutting of beams. Jets burn fuel efficiently at temp to develop thrust. A black smoke fire isn’t hot enough to melt supporting beams. I know this from oil-fueld backyard foundries I’ve built. Then there was building#7 that also collapsed in its own footprint around 5:00 PM that day. Apparently there were inside fires, Larry Silverstein the owner of the WTC complex, on PBS video, said the “the firemen couldn’t contain the fires, so we made the decision to “pull it” (which is industry-speak for a controlled demolition), and we watched the building fall.” The question begs, just when they had time to set charges! Maybe when the OTHER buildings were also so wired?! It’s public record. The 9/11 Truth Movement reported these and MANY other anomalies that day, NORAD being told to stand down when the airliners went missing, because they were conducting a SIMULATION that day, of AIRPLANES FLYING INTO BUILDINGS! Some photographs of the ostensible planes showed strange appendages on their undersides. Dove Zakheim, a US-Israeili national, headed the Pentagon finances that year, a trillion dollars went missing, no one went to jail. Dove owned a defense company that sold equipment to bolt on to airplanes, trucks, boats, rendering them into fly-by-wire missiles. Norman Mineta reported before Congressional committee, comments made by Cheney when he shared space in the Whitehouse underground bunker during time of the attack that a judge might find implicating, a staffer repeatedly reporting the planes being xmiles out and do the orders still stand? …to which Cheney snapped “Of course they still stand, have you heard anything to the contrary?!” Of course these are just circumstantial facts, also that Marvin Bush owned the company that held security contracts for the WTC complex AND the airports where the planes took off from! My the world gets smaller and smaller! As for the plane that hit the pentagon, that was no airliner, the hole was too small and absence of wreckage, the french reported all this. FBI confiscated all private TV cameras that would contradict the official story line.Anyway you’re asking me to recall and reference stuff from a long time ago. You need to take some responsibility yourself for wherever your head was at the time. 9/11 was a psy-op to change our outlook, to allow more draconian government, surveillance, gestappo, to make us feel “safe.” There are individuals & companies profitting from this. The elite certainly do want US all to behave orderly.

            DHS confiscated weapons following Katrina, my god man, look it up or weren’t you awake at the time! Google: gun confiscation, katrina. It’s not rocket-science.

            Yes the elites codified in the Georgia guidestones their wish to reduce human population to a mere fraction of what it is today, so we KNOW their intent, and any/all mega-death catastrophes, natural or man-made, serves their ends. Haarp induced earth-quakes are great for generating tsunamis and killing large numbers without leaving a fingerprint, the perfect crime. Anyway when you SEE “accidents” like Baxter almost releasing live bird-flu into the human population through it’s vaccine products, it’s really no surprise. The same occurred (successfully) when AIDS was released through Hepatitis vaccines. the military has a long record of these bio-warfare tests. AIDS was contracted to be made under code name operation Naomi. The elite wanted to kill off Africa so they could go in and mine minerals without having to pay any tribal elders (they would all be dead.) Kissinger said over two decades ago that development was being with-held from Africa.

            Fascism is a collusion of government with select industries, to the people’s cost. It can happen under a warm & fuzzy cover of capitalism. Why would you ask me to explain WHAT makes people insane, or greedy? The Buddhists regard greed as short-sighted stupidity, akin to mental illness.

            Point is, Prescott Bush was part of a group funding Hitler and our government knew and did shut that bank down to win the war! Even in the teeth of direct proof, you seem to be an apologist for BAD MEN. Who do you think created Skull-&-Bones and do you know ANYTHING about that organization? No, you don’t have to report back to me, I’m already well-informed.

            I already told you how I would handle private banking. It’s a criminal industry. There’s no way you can sanitize it, you just stop granting licenses. You start a national people’s bank that distributes currency to mom-&-pop banks acting as kiosks. The government bank prices private banks out of the market with it’s low rates. No more interest fees earned or owed for originating loans. No more fractional reserve practices that benefit mere private stock-holders. We need a system that enfranchises every citizen, not just the well-connected.

            What you think naive: that ambitious men shouldn’t be able to bribe politicians to achieve their ends. I’ll admit even the Federalist Papers and Constitution made excuses for elected to receive gifts, they’ll never vote it away, but it still stinks, big-time.

            I never said Obama was a good President, on the other hand I did not like the alternative, and the new speaker would have been a heart-beat away had the ‘pugs won.
            Robmoney was a sell-out globalist who made +$200M outsourcing US jobs & factories and then claimed he’d bring them back? Please. He shelters his money offshore to avoid US taxes and takes all his income as capital gains, how very nice for him. And Ryan never saw a free-trade agreement he didn’t like and sign, i.e. the TPP.

            I feel sorry for today’s military. You’ve always been canon fodder, but I’d hate dying on foreign soil for some globalist corporation’s right to make money. They killed off the naive patriots who stepped up, right quick. Pretty hard to muster a sense of patriotism now, under the circumstances.

            I never tried to parse out Jesus’ teachings, as to which were more or less important. I do find the idea that God is friendly, forgiving and on our side, (the good news) particularly comforting.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            First off, if you want to claim as proof there’s evidence of some video about Bush Sr making some speech somewhere, produce a reference to it. Also produce the evidence that GW Bush was told about some NWO when the report of the initial WTC attack came in. That’s the implication of what you wrote. However, here’s just a minor detail. The truth was that the children were reading to him.

            Secondly, you’ve shown you know nothing of how the operation of AF1 or the 89th ALW works, especially in emergencies. As for the defense of DC, the only alert fighters available were launched but their specific mission was to protect AF1 if it would’ve returned to Andrews. I’ve been to their base and seen them and briefed on their mission because at the time it influenced mine big time. Contrary to most people’s belief, the US had almost no armed fighters sitting alert, nor even bombers. (see http://emperors-clothes.com/9-11backups/nd23.htm) Also, NORAD is tasked with external threats, thus it wasn’t prepared for something like what happened. In addition there were serious errors in communications between the FAA and NORAD. That had been policy for several administrations. However, it was a matter of complacency that should never have been allowed ((see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._military_response_during_the_September_11_attacks)), but it seems every new administration has to reinvent the wheel. Look at the problem with Hillary’s security problems with emails.

            
Much of what you refer to is fabrication. For instance, I’ve seen photos of airline wreckage at the Pentagon (see http://911review.com/errors/pentagon/nodebris.html). So the response that I need to take responsibility for myself since it’s too long ago for you to remember clearly, other than the conspiracy theories, is bogus and condescending. Most conspiracists tend to be condescending, however, when people don’t accept their version of a story. Although it’s not relevant, I was at work where work stopped and we were all permitted to watch the news. But maybe you think my head was in helping carry out the inside job.


            
As for gun confiscation, it was done by a few NOPDs and out of state LEOs and some Army reservists. (see http://www.thebangswitch.com/katrina-gun-confiscation-my-experience/) and the courts have ruled it was done illegally. I was awake but I don’t make up stories about it. As for AIDS, I went to a seminar about how it was created, and it was, and how it got out. Your little scenario is another bogus conspiracy theory. By the way, I never asked you to explain what makes people insane. But I do wonder why so many are so gullible for conspiracy theories.


            
Your statement, “No, you don’t have to report back to me, I’m already well-informed, ” is proof of my last comment. All you’re saying is that your mind is made up and you’ll just ridicule those who disagree with you should they respond. It’s meant to discourage freedom of speech and an honest exchange. I wonder who has a problem. Isn’t that what you mean by implying I think that ambitious men should be able to bribe politicians that proves that?


            
Yes, you’ve already told me how you’d handle banking, through a communist plan of nationalization. You also indicate you’re not particularly fond of the Constitution. So I understand why you’d never fight for your country, if you even consider this your country. It doesn’t surprise me nor does the increasingly condescending and hubristic tenor of your posts.


            
As for Jesus, do you even know who He was and is? Do you know why we celebrate this season?

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            The footage of Bush Sr. speaking before the UN Security Council is out there, as in Gary Hart speaking for the CFR and quoting Bush’s remarks before the Security Council. I saw Hart on TV following 9/11 making those remarks. I’m sure you can find them in Alex Jones videos or 9/11/NWO exposes on Youtube. Don’t make me fish them out for you, my homework was done a long time ago and you’re not paying me to convince you of anything and I’m not a dentist. I already told you where to look. “Watching the news” is nowhere near adequate.

            …not fabrications, just facts you missed, ignored, failed to find relevant or indifferent to.

            That’s right, my mind was made up after pouring over the evidence, and the results/after-effects we’ve lived, are still living through, an encroaching police state, you’d like to blame Obama for, but started in earnest with Bush(es), even before, with Reagan and his Rex84 prisons. I’m having an honest exchange, you just don’t like what I’m saying. So be it, I don’t care. I’m not interested in proving myself or anything to you. I think you’re another statistical example of mental laziness. I’m not emotionally involved with that.

            You went to a seminar about AIDS, big deal; the internet is littered with books & articles about AIDS.

            You tend to think in stereotypical isms. Any suggestion of a new way of doing things has to fit into a pre-existing category/compartment in your brain with all associated baggage you’ve attached to it. This means this… without ever questioning your own premises by which those associations were arrived at. All education is indoctrination of a sort, a communicating and accepting of cultural paradigms and prejudices that assume the teachers are ethical and their information accurate. Any one of these sets of assumptions can be false. Your thinking has become more reactive than organic or vital, it’s a short-cut but it misses key elements. The brain gets tired and fastens upon short-cuts, I do understand.

            I think I know who Jesus was, we celebrate his birthday around this time because Constantine felt it convenient to incorporate it with other Roman festival celebrations. You can have faith but people can have false beliefs too. Knowledge is better than faith, knowledge has to be sought after, it doesn’t just fall into your lap, if it did before you were ready, you’d just throw it away for not recognizing its value. I don’t care what you think about my tenor.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Hey, he who goes by no name,

            “Don’t make me fish them out for you, my homework was done a long time ago and you’re not paying me to convince you of anything and I’m not a dentist.)? Are you really that egotistical? You never told me where to look except on the Internet. The obligation if you want to convince anyone is for you to put up the evidence that clearly contradicts the evidence I’ve seen. Oh, I forgot, being a true blue conspiracy believer you dismiss out of hand any contradictory evidence. I consider that childish at the very least.

            As for Gary Hart, are you referring to the Senator who played Monkey Business? With his lack of integrity, what makes him a reliable source for you? Is it that he’s a Democrat? Didn’t he also pull out of a presidential race and then try to jump back in? That seems unreliable to me.

            As for facts, if you’ve actually been where I said I’ve been and experienced what I have, then I’d consider your claim that I missed or ignored points of your arguments. However, I’m sure your insistence that Bush was behind 9/11 is due to partisan demagoguery. However, what about the role Clinton played in not briefing the incoming new administration about the dangers. Was his staff still high and playing tricks by sabotaging equipment to due its duty? Nevertheless, the information is contained in the Barrett Commission and Able Danger Reports. What about Clinton’s security adviser, Sandy Berger, stealing and destroying Top Secret SI SCI documents to protect Clinton? Will you blame that on Bush as well?

            Also, I never blamed Mr. Obama for the socialist/progressive fascist state we have today. That started around the time of Wilson, and took off with FDR. Neither Bush helped restore Constitutional Law, but Mr. Obama has by far been the most dangerous president we’ve ever had. He’s a rouge lawless wannabe dictator who has nothing but disdain for the Constitution as he’s a Fabian (if that) socialist. But with you guys everything is Bush’s fault. So if your emotions can’t handle things; chalk it up to your progressive leanings.

            You claim you’ve learned from experts on the internet. I learned in person from those in forensic medicine. I learned about aircraft procedures and accidents from experts as well. Also I learned about the operations of certain aircraft and groups because I was in the business. Were you? But you deride things like that as a “big deal.” Like I said, you got a condescending nature and you’ve proven it.

            As for Jesus, your answer is just a non-sequitur. I asked why we celebrate his birth, but you can’t answer it so you run to your anti-Christian stories. You’ve proven you know little about Him and certainly aren’t a Christian. But have a merry Christmas and I hope you do have a Saul type experience.

          • Wild_Bird

            I admire your restraint and magnanimity Roberto.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            The truth doesn’t need a name, anyone can have it who seeks it out. yes, the internet, is such a blessing, the world’s filing cabinet, and so much more. Are you really that incapable of formulating search terms? Yes I did tell you where to look, the 9/11 Truth Movement, Alex Jones, Youtube videos. That’s really sufficient. Many of the groups where I learned what happened (whatreallyhappened.com) et al are now 404. The evidence you’ve seen is the official story line. Everyone “knows” that stuff. I guess you’re easily convinced of some things and not others. But people ‘where you’re at’ are not rare or unique. I should make it my job to do the lecture circuit trying to educate you all about the events surrounding 9/11. One Christian woman I heard on the radio 6 months ago, wrote a book about exactly what I told you, all sourced from the internet, her host was very deferential. Some people have woken up.

            Yes, that very same Gary Hart who ran for President against Mike Dukakis but was embarrassed by an extramarital affair and dropped out of the race. The CFR saw potential in him and scooped him up and made him their spokesperson. I was a bit surprised myself, seeing him post 9/11, speaking on national TV on their behalf, his quoting Bush Sr’s remarks, advocating for a NWO.

            If there’s any partisan demagoguery, then the country shared it, for the bullsh!t that came out of the Bush admin.

            I’m not defending any particular admin, not the Clintons, they’re all scoundrels. The more you learn about past Presidents the less you wish you knew. Almost everyone back to, save Kennedy, attended Bohemian Grove. If you don’t know what that is, look it up. Uh, what dangers was Clinton supposed to apprise Bush of? You’re still assum- ing the Twin towers were hit by planes, piloted by terrorists.

            Your “experience” is your stumbling block because you think it’s all-conclusive/complete. That our “understanding” about who Jesus was differs a bit, kinda goes without saying.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Believe it or not, I’ve looked at the 9/11 Truth Movement, Alex Jones, and other such sites. They’re conspiracy sites that I don’t put much stock into but I have read many of them. There’re millions of YouTube videos. As I said, it you want to prove your case, cite specific references. Did you read any of the sites I referenced? By the way, was it an official story line that I’ve been to the bases and know their mission and was involved in some of them? Maybe you think I helped write their story lines.

            I’ve spoke to people who believe Bush created 9/11 and I didn’t believe them. So when you say you should educate me, do you mean force me to buy into your conspiracies with some vague, or not so vague threat. A wet noodle across the eyeball or something. 😉

            However, I see you’re still blaming your boogeyman Bush. What about the demagoguery from the Obama regime? What about the treason as defined by the Constitution Article 3 Clause 1 by both Clinton and the Obama regime. In addition, the Clinton administration known of the terrorists training in the US and other problems but failed to notify Bush’s people. But if you want to axiomatically assume Bush is guilty then go ahead and discount what Clinton did. Say Berger never stole and destroyed Top Secret SI SCI documents. But I gave you the name of the reports to look up.

            But keep on with the ad hominem attacks and assumptions that are thinly veiled prevarications. If you think it convinces me, well, I’ve got some swamp land in Alaska for you.

          • guestimate

            Too much talk and posturing by you, this is going nowhere. Yes I’m convinced from my extensive research that 9/11 was an inside job. Bush played a role, Cheney, Marvin, the PNAC, Silverstein and countless others we may never know. Too many abnormalities taken together amounting to a big smoking gun. It was a horrific and selfish crime to sacrifice so many people just to push through some political objectives. The terror was intentional, for the end goal of a NWO, get it? Don’t you even see how this all fits in with Revelations?

            Who said I thought highly of Clinton? All these people are CFR members, Harvard, Yale or Rhodes scholars. Just like Benghazi could not be defended because it was an off-budget CIA front providing guns to rebels. (The CIA works for the CFR, not US, and is forever fomenting trouble to further CFR globalist objectives.) They taught Osama everything he knew.

            There’s a black Pastor Manning on Youtube who asserts Obama ran drugs & guns for the CIA in the middle-east for a few years. That might explain how no one has been able to pull out anything about his past, he’s being protected.

            for the last time, they are all and without exception, highly educated …scoundrels.

            The conspiracist view of the world simply recognizes that men makes plans to get things done, for their own interests. It’s not more complicated than that.

            An ad hominem attack is anyone who doesn’t agree with you; please.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Who’s doing the posturing and the denigrating of those who don’t agree with them? It seems your definition of an discussion going somewhere is if others buy your conspiracy theories hook line and sinker. I don’t and that angers you to no end.

            B y the way, the definition of an ad homiem attack is appealing to feelings or prejudices rather than intellect or attacking an opponent’s character rather than answering the contentions made. It seems to be your modus operandi. See what a little education can do for someone?

            So tell me, are you aliterate?

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            I don’t care if you think we were attacked by terrorists on 9/11. I simply assert in this case it was a false-flag event by persons in our government. Interesting you would call it “my” conspiracy theory. It doesn’t make me angry (that you’re not convinced), it makes me sad that people are so easily duped. Sorry you feel so easily denigrated.

            I’m aliterate in as much as I don’t waste time going over old ground that the media has already covered in spades.

            One man’s facts is another’s opinions, and vica versa. I think you need to get over yourself just a little bit. See what a little too much education does to someone?

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Once again you denigrate someone because of their education and claiming they’re duped, among other tings.? You keep proving my assertions.

            You also proved my assertion that you’re aliterate.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            Sorry you feel so easily denigrated. Dupedness is a choice. The Bible mentions people who are ever learning but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. Education is a life-long process, not a mere paper chase. Everyone is aliterate, no one has time to read everything. We pick & choose.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Not only are you aliterate, you’re semi-illiterate.

          • guestimate

            Now you’re just throwing insults for fun or maybe for spite, the mark of a true conservative.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            How am I insulting you by pointing out the truth that you don’t know what the word “aliterate” means? Have I insulted anyone who believes that 911 was an inside job like you insult those who disagree? Like a true progressive conspiracist you lack both understanding and integrity.

          • guestimate

            I know perfectly well what aliterate means, someone who can read but chooses not to, and I told you everyone is aliterate in as much as no one has time to read everything so we pick and choose what we read. Then you shifted to the accusation of my being semi-illiterate, which would be half unable to read, so which is it? Why do you force me to redundancy by (your) failing to read or grasp clear english? You seem desperate for some bone to glom on to, even to point of contriving one.

            You believe the official govt story-line about 9/11, I get it. You have your bias and I have mine. I have no idea what a progressive conspiracist is, never heard those two terms together before, do they occur as often as you suggest? I think my understanding is fine, humans can always work on their integrity. You never answered my question, how long you’ve ever voluntarily gone without eating.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            The Princeton University Unabridged Dictionary defines the words as meaning a person who can read and write but who chooses not to LEARN from what they read. So since you don’t understand English words, which you readily admit, that makes you semi-illiterate.

            As for not eating, I’ve gone about 3 1/2 days without food. However, it wasn’t voluntary. That was about 2 to 3 days. I’ve never gone 40 days without food if that’s what you want to know.

          • guestimate

            Well then you use words inappropriately because I read and learn just fine and made no such admission about anything so your remarks are both contrived and inaccurate. You think people aren’t learning just because they don’t agree with you; are you such a dull egotist?

            The ability to go without food does somewhat concern both a person’s grasp and experience of what’s necessary (vs. excessive), not to mention self-discipline, will-power, but there are other reasons for fasting, both physical & spiritual.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            You’re comment is a non-sequitur. You admitted you didn’t understand a number of words and showed you didn’t understand others.

            As for your comment about going without food, what is its pertinence in this discussion? Care to answer that?

          • guestimate

            Actually the only point I questioned you re: language was the use of conspiracist vs. conspiracy theorist. You presume to educate people where you think needed, even when there’s no evidence your services are required. What was “showed” is you require people to agree with you or they don’t “understand” you, I think that reflects a really inflated ego on your part. ..to which I’d quote Homer Simpson– “Just because I don’t care, doesn’t mean I don’t understand.” You called me semi illiterate which I suppose is your best insult under the circumstances despite the fact my responses to you really prove otherwise. And the discussion hasn’t gone anywhere for some time, so I might say or ask absolutely anything. As for fasting, it helps me get a benchmark regards to what you’ve experienced via your organism, how conservative you are vs. willing to experiment, openness to new information, cultured and yes, even educated. But even apart from that I’ve already determined you’re desperate and grasping to maintain a good front for which I really could care less.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Sadly, it’s you who doesn’t believe in a free exchange of ideas. But I’m beginning to think that you have some serious mental issues. Your concepts on fasting certainly indicate that.

          • guestimate

            Jesus discussed fasting with his disciples, they all practiced it at some point, there must have been a reason (that’s for your benefit.) Your ignorant and reactive remarks surrounding a topic you obviously know so little really does indicate a mental issue on your part, albeit so common as to be considered “normal” in a society equally uninformed. You talk about lack of education, take a look in the mirror.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            It’s sad you evidently don’t know how to use a dictionary or thesaurus. Even worse is the fact you get angry with those who can or who already have a better vocabulary than you do. Also, if you do want to use big words, learn how to spell them and what they mean.

            As for your comments on fasting, why do you lie? I said I’ve fasted, just not for 40 days like the Bible says Jesus did.

          • guestimate

            Did I misspell a word? a typo perhaps? ooh, that must have really stung your petty priggishly high standards. Why don’t you just keep conversations between you and your bathroom mirror? That way you won’t have to word-police the “illiterate” while making much ado about nothing, suggesting a lack of integrity but within those petty terms only you define for yourself. But one area you really do excel is self-flattery.

            “3 & 1/2 days but not by choice” doesn’t count. I said voluntarily.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            It was you who brought up the subject of a dictionary, but now that you’ve proven you can’t use one properly, even after I gave you the correct spelling, you get angry. Why? Also, I never called you illiterate, but if you want to prevaricate, go ahead. However, it’s not self-flattery to point out that you’ve admitted your dearth of literacy and are upset because I know more about it and am more educated than you. But I understand your insecurity demonstrated by your need to demean those with a higher educational level than what you have.

            I see that you’re implying that if one doesn’t go beyond 4 days of fasting they’re not fasting. Again, what does that say about your literacy? After all, you DID ask me what was the longest I’d gone fasting. Being honest, I told you. Now, how long have you gone fasting? By the way, I agree with you that there’re benefits to fasting.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            Please stop bloviating your wishful delusions. You gave up on communicating a while back.

            The only time I questioned you about language was your use of conspiracy theorist vs. conspiracist. Apparently you’re some kind of english marm who thinks because people don’t agree with you, they don’t understand you, which is a cognitive deficit on your part, caused by an inflated ego.

            The conversation hasn’t gone anywhere for a while now so I’m liable to say or ask almost anything. As re: fasting, it helps me better benchmark you, what you’ve experienced as far as integrity in your own organism, your degree of conservatism (fear, stodginess) vs. openness to push the envelope into the unknown/learn new things/take risks, degree of culture and yes, even education (about what matters.) Jesus talked about and practiced fasting so the topic is relevant. I was just curious about your own insights about it and no, not for me.

            https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/SZdOtUDxMZaxPq3C8IBlCYOepjggiMYtKk8BXE7iWE3wNVDI0lpToldXqUg75K6ISe81Hk5PGRiL2IpdT7kjn5roaBikxka4Lmus80zruFLFLKIQ7-vPd5oVCquJczvJpZOuc9uBGj7ta5b9G6jjZ1hnLzfHBYfDOjvuWWn0vGQ=w470-h313-nc

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Another non-sequitur. How sad.

          • guestimate

            Only for a lack of neurological connections in your own mind, Robert, or a poverty of concepts.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            Stop bloviating. I only questioned the distinction you made between conspiracist and conspiracy theorist. You seem to be one of those people Jesus talked about, straining at gnats and swallowing camels. You gave up communicating a while back with your pretentious self-inflations and wishful delusions.

          • guestimate
          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            So you believe that GHW Bush’s speech are evidence that GW Bush was behind 9/11? Evidently you’re incapable of understanding the concept of what Bush was talking about.

            Both Wilson and FDR spoke of new world orders where a quest to prevent wars would emerge. Both the League of Nations and the United Nations were part of that quest. They failed, but that was their hope.

          • guestimate

            Ah, there it is. No amount of evidence will satisfy you so why do you bother asking me to provide it? No more gratuitous freebies to someone too lazy to google a simple search term, Robert.

            Yah, under a supranational dictatorship. Maybe you should read or watch videos (so much easier) about Free masonry, Adam Weishapt, the Illuminati, secret societies and the ancient origins of this movement. Skip the gay boy gathering of elite at Bohemian Grove and their cremation-of-care ceremony before a stone idol of Moloch, couldn’t possibly be of any importance, But please do stop denigrating the hard and heroic work of others who’ve sacrificed so much to bring facts to light, even to your blinking badger eyes. So sorry you seem unable to connect the dots, but given the blessings of the internet and the sheer simplicity it provides a person to educate themselves, there’s really no excuse for you.

            And no, the above video on it’s own is no evidence GW single-handedly plotted 9/11, which I never claimed. But taken together with Gary Hart’s remarks for the CFR, who have written policy papers predicting certain events and then more papers for their solutions which have in fact been implemented, do suggest a wider plan “emerging.” For example Almost to the day, 11 years prior to 9/11, the CFR wrote and posted a policy paper how America should handle terrorism (when) it came to our shores. The CFR solution was a new Dept. of Homeland Security/national police force, i.e. gestappo, TSA, who have expanded their operations beyond just airports to all forms of public transportation and even check-points. It’s the same nazi fascist model, “Your papers, please.” Maybe it will all just go away if you focus on minutia like some petty word prig professor. Maybe people aren’t perceiving you favorably, what a travesty THAT would be (LOL).

            Never mind the PNAC paper “Rebuilding America’s Defenses” calling for a “New Pearl Harbor event,” or Marvin Bush’s company ownership of security contracts for the WTC complex.

            Of course there’s other evidence that you’re blithe and too lazy to seek out based upon your own warm & fuzzy belief system that it’s not happening here. Anyway I don’t feel it’s my single-handed job to convince your deeply- invested-in-the-status-quo, stick-in-the-mud mind, of anything, but there’s no excuse for you given the mountains of evidence others have collated and posted across Youtube. et al. The younger generation is well aware of what went down and their unhappy lives in the matrix of corruption, and they will deal with what you’re unable or unwilling to face.

            Certainly men do make plans and influence the world we live in, and quite often without announcing their intentions, but when they DO announce them, then witless people like you are so for not having paid attention, or fear that their portion might be threatened.

            Honestly Robert, I’m done here. You’re too much of waste-of-time, Mr. he-who-fancies-himself-educated. The funny thing is I had liberal friends just like you, who couldn’t deal with grim realities.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            So you’re into the whole conspiracist theory package I see. So much so you can’t even answer my simple question> that’s OK. I see no point to trying to hold a civil cogent discussion with you. Have a Happy New year.

  • Daniel Mount

    It don’t matter to me because an American is a target and every Muslim Terrorist is looking to kill you today. So your better off safe in your home and in your own country even if Obama and his fellow Terrorist Administration are on the war path. Don’t forget they think that you are stupid and will just give in to their Treason and Tyranny. Just remember that the Constitution is still here and well in spite of what you hear and read. They can’t push us around we are a free people because of our Forefathers that had created the Constitution And The Bill Of Rights. It’s time too stand up and be counted and to shout out loud, “We will not be treated like criminals we are a good God fearing people and we are Americans. We will not bow down to an Islamic ideologies that dose not belong in America and is against all that America stands for. For God And Country, God Bless America and it’s People and Freedom.

  • http://www.voltairepress.com Paul Anthony

    If only the government would make half as much effort to keep non-citizens out as they are doing to keep citizens in…

    • Rodney Steward

      Controlling citizens!!

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      Sounds like we’re headed for the USSR era Eastern Europe, especially E. Germany and the Stasi.

  • George Rowe

    Sounds more and more like a communist country doesn’t it.
    Abolish the IRS and make the Federal Reserve FULLY accountable to Congress.
    Elect a Congress that will fulfill it’s Constitutional obligations and elect a President who is a true Patriotic American and honors his/her Constitutional Obligations.
    Boy, am I a dreamer or what?
    George

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      It was dreamers who founded this Republic.

    • guestimate

      You will never make the FED answerable to Congress for the very reason they are a consortium of int’l bankers. The only way is to NATIONALIZE the banks, government becomes the issuer of cash & credit through licensed kiosks. Stop selling T-bills as a courtesy that allows investors to participate in public debt creation, and just print money on a pay-as-you-go basis, like Lincoln with his green-backs. Implement an APT automated payment system of taxation that duns a fraction of a percent from all US money transfers. No one would feel that and everyone pays.

      • Roberto Enrique Benitez

        After you nationalize the banks, then what? How about the oil industry as

        Rep. Hinchey and Waters advocated? Should we nationalize health care as Mr. Obama said was his goal? Should we nationalize and bury the coal industry as Mr. Obama wants to do? Does GMC become Government Motors?

        If a government can just print money supposedly on a pay-as-you-go basis, how do we constrain politicians and bureaucrats from interfering? Would it be by using the Liberty Tree as Jefferson advocated?

        What about repealing the 17th amendment and return real control of issuing money to the Treasury rather than the privately owned FED and the international bankers you correctly mention?

        • guestimate

          Banking isn’t the same as other industries, it’s the singular (only) conduit by which money issued by government, reaches the people. If you study banking you know it’s based upon a ruse and literal license to steal. Private banks inflate/leverage assets over 10X what they really have, then foreclose on assets, acquiring real property bought with worthless script. That’s what “fractional reserves” means. Then they flip the property to new buyers who can pay their interest charges, which is a private tax, requiring a public one. (There was no income tax until the Federal Reserve Act was passed. The income tax became necessary when the government realized it had handed OWNERSHIP of all currency printed, to the banks, rendering itself effectivel BROKE, and couldn’t fund necessary, constitutional govt functions. The bankers’ solutions was simple: “TAX THE PEOPLE.” Of course revoking the FRA was never even considered.) Govt could forego nationalization by just starting a national public bank making direct loans & payments, thereby pricing private banks out of the market due to govt low rates. Mom-&-pop banks could survive by applying for currency distribution (kiosk) licenses. Hey, it’s better than nothing.

          But since you mention oil, I suppose there’s no real divine right/entitlement that should let oil companies drill for oil and sell it off to their singular profit, without paying the natives something for it; curious where this whole corporate entitlement notion got started. Anyway, oil is going away/becoming passe, there’s way better energy sources on the horizon, essentially free after investment in basic hardware. Crocodiles in top hats will cry crocodile tears that their dinosaur-poop fuel is no longer highly valued.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            To borrow your comparison, the oil industry isn’t like other industries, nor is the medical industry. So what you’re saying is that we should go beyond socialism, which is actually akin to fascism, and adopt communism where the state owns the means of production for the benefit of the people. It sounds very Pollyanna but it’s never worked. That’s due to the fallen nature of humans. So while I wish your hopeful vision of a coordinated system of cooperative people would work, I know it won’t. I really wish your description of the APT tax system would work, But again, I don’t see it happening.

            By the way, you tend to overstate problems such as what the banking system is based upon. It seems your view of a free market or capitalist system is so jaded that you believe centralized planning and ownership is the only answer. It’s the hallmark of a true socialist who desires a strong central government that controls all aspects of people’s lives for the benefit of citizens. Perhaps if Jesus were the “dictator” it’d work. But sadly that isn’t the case, at least for now.

            But then, this is the time we celebrate God’s gift to us in the hope for a future where real justice and honesty prevails. So have a Merry Christmas.

          • guestimate

            What I’m saying is humans decide how they want to manage resources and there’s more than one way of doing that. I am not using examples from mere recorded history or recent memory. To necessarily grant title-ownership of a resource to the parties who extract it, isn’t written in stone anywhere. They can be paid for their role, but no reason why piggy profits should accrue solely to them or a minority private cabal. Businessmen are also humans so also fallen, and not to be trusted by their mere entreaties. That’s why regulations are needed, otherwise they take everything.

            If a vision of cooperative people doesn’t work then all hope is lost, we are all toast. Idealism is really quite natural and the type of people who make a better world and make it to a better place, while the fatuous, short-sighted, greedy, self-serving (socio-paths) make big messes the rest of us are forever forced to clean up.

            My description of private banking is entirely accurate and I would advise you to watch the video “Secrets of Oz” entirely free on Youtube.

            Peace on earth, to men of good will.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            I don’t deny that regulations or oversight isn’t needed as some libertarian purists do. It’s that I don’t agree with excessive regulation. Of course it’s not easy to always say what isn’t enough and what’s too much. But I’ll take a free market capitalist system as imperfect as it may be over a socialist/fascist system any day.

            By the way, our constitutional system of federalism isn’t based on a Pollyanna concept that people just need to be taught by government how to act well. It’s based on the Judeo-Christian concept that man is fallen, which you acknowledge. That’s the purpose of a checks and balance system. What the Framers worried about was what might happen of 2 or even 3 of the branches decided to act in concert against the people. Isn’t that what we face now, unfortunately?

          • guestimate

            I think the system we have, under either party, is tending towards perverse extremes, and passing laws with no popular mandate, that in fact sell our freedoms out. When I say sell out, I mean strip those freedoms away to the profit of others. When I say others I mean profiteering corporations. When I say profiteering corporations I mean the actual owners of those corporations and board members, and to a lesser extent their stock-holders, taken together define the New World Order.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            If I might ask, do you know that most corporations are small businesses? So I assume you’re talking about the large corporations that do engage in unfair business practices.

          • guestimate

            Yes and what’s your point? Corporation is a registered entity with the state to conduct certain business practices and enjoy some perks and liability exemptions other than sole proprietorships, etc., etc. You’ve already stated your belief in the system, the suit and tie proves you favor current organizational structures. “The Corporation” (free video) on Youtube I think honestly discusses the +’sitives & -tives.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            The photo of me was taken for a church directory when I had a little bit more hair. But I’ll bet you find even that offensive. Heck, you not only don’t post your picture, you won’t even post your name. What does that say about you? Are you a caitiff?

            My point is that I was wondering if, seeing your desire to nationalize companies, it you knew about the status of most corporations. It was a straight up question. I gave you the option of saying you were discussing large corporations that do engage in unfair business practices. But no, you couldn’t even agree without without an ad hominem attack.

            So seeing your hysterical response, I must wonder about your stability. It seemingly indicates you’re part of the Molotov Cocktail set just for the hell of it.

          • guestimate

            Roberto:

            I wasn’t attacking you or criticizing your picture, I think you read too much into things. I mentioned that you’re wearing a suit, that has connotations. so you attend mainstream religious services then. That more or less corroborates my remarks that you like organizational structures.

            My name & picture (as well as yours) are irrelevant to discussions about ideas. That someone is writing is sufficient to assume there’s a live meat-puppet formulating words. No, never in my life have I been contemptible or cowardly (LOL) how about you? Please, be serious.

            Corporations are artificial entities with neo-life breathed into them by groups of people for a given end of creating profit from resources they’ve access to. There’s nothing inherently virtuous about them, though they can do good things, they can also do damage. Big or small, they’re a mix of good AND bad (like the people who run them.) They could be more virtuous by being socially responsible and accountable, at least paying their taxes. Unfortunately, yes, the bigger they get, the more their money talks and they’re able to skirt more rules and get more perks than the average person. Business expect special rules and privledges and if they don’t get them they sulk and then move to where conditions are more to their liking. That’s globalism. Yes the worst offenders are the transnationals, the Fortune 500, whose members mainly make up the CFR, whose policy decisions shape the world as we know it, like it or not. But smaller corporations also participate in the mercantile web/supply chain. It’s not the size of the company that makes them aidors and abettors to fascism, but how they choose to cooperate with it (as the people who work there.) What I detect here is a man who has a vested interest in his education as it was conveyed to him and feels a bit threatened, doesn’t like the foundations being inspected. Yet it’s more about the foundations than the man, at least that’s what I’m discussing here.

            Stability has to do with platforms and foundations, and how the earth chooses to behave. Is the earth stable? Well, most of the time.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            You want to be serious? OK, how about this for a position? I believe we should revoke the artificial legal person status of corporations. In doing so we could also restrict or eliminate corporate donations to political campaigns. The thing we have to be careful about is still allowing real persons the ability to take corporations to court, one of the original reasons for making corporations legal fictions. Also, when there’s financial irregularities that don’t quite add up to felonies, we must should be able to hold corporate officers accountable other than just denying them golden parachutes. Your thoughts?

            By the way, I don’t think I read too much into your comment about my picture. If anything, I was being generous. You seem to make a lot of erroneous assumptions, no doubt out of your own prejudices based on what seems to be your semi-Marxist leanings. So I don’t know if you’ll understand, but the picture was taken at my grandmother’s church which I attended on occasion with her. It was a mainstream Presbyterian church. But the one I usually attended was a Pentecostal church operating out of a store front. Even the pastor usually didn’t wear a suit and I never saw him in a robe. Quite often, rather than a formal service, it was in a Bible study format. I also attended a B ible study in my cousin’s home which I found far more enlightening than formal services. What do you think is informal, disrupting or attacking formal churches, meeting in a park (which we’ve done), or meeting in homes (also which we’ve done)? So much for you erroneous assumptions again based on willful ill will towards things organized.

            As for name and pictures, once you criticize those of others, then it becomes relevant. You can’t have it both ways. So yes, I was being serious in questioning your courage in light of your comments. Also, you seem to have a problem with those who have had a formal education. IO find that is usually due to a sense of insecurity due to their own lack of education.

            As for what the earth’s stability has to do with all of this I don’t know, except that it accounts more for climate change more so than the capitalism you want to end. At least Bush hasn’t destabilized its orbit, rotation, or nutation. Well, I don’t know about the latter. Do you have any conspiracy theories on that?

            Still, it’s not that humans prefer stability, it’s that all life needs it to a large degree, otherwise it ceases to exist, a common theme among those who want to upset all of society’s applecart, i.e., revolution for the hell of it. However, in this season we know, or should know, who’s the ruler of Hell.

          • guestimate

            Revoke corporate status person-hood status? I think it’s a great idea, but didn’t expect to hear it from you. That’s a REAL uphill battle though, the case is very old, like two centuries ago.

            I have no ill-will to organized religious services, I just don’t participate in them now. I did in the past though. Anyone can do what they like in that regard and I defend their right to do it.

            As far as corporations, that’s different and for the reasons I mentioned. The corporate structure itself doesn’t tend toward accountability, because of the extreme license given them, but you stated your solution (above.)

            Suits are symbolic of somewhere-in-the-pecking order of white man’s western industrial culture. It’s stereo-typical. Sometimes we want to be seen as part of that stereo-type and sometimes not. I was making an observation.

            Formal education is fine if it doesn’t conscript your brain into status-quo thinking for its own sake. I’ve met engineers on similar blogs who think their credentials (or their kids) give them grasp of technology that’s frankly beyond them and demand I prove to them. People forget that formal education is still indoctrination, while real learning never stops, unless of course you presume to know everything. Many people do stop, rest on their laurels, having no interest in R&D/pushing the knowledge envelope into the uncharted, or discoveries by pariahs. Many academics have an antipathy to those, or only persue so far as it helps their universities secure grants or funding. Their real commitment to truth is absent, beyond their financial motives/reputations Their very livelihoods depend on NOT rocking the boat. There’s also fierce competition, egotism, envy, over who makes a discovery, ultimately gets credit for, and gets PAID. But what if an idea is so old that personal credit for moderns cannot be legitimately asserted? What then? Oh, the angst of it all.

            A lot of wonderful discoveries, based upon truths, are suppressed, because they threaten others’ privately established, wealth conduits. (The status quo.) Christ’s second coming and establishment of the millennium here on earth, some interpret He will release technology and/or knowledge of God to correct the mess men have made of this world. However a lot of technology has been released to men already, that could be brought forward now, to bless this earth, but the status quo won’t have that.

            I’m satisfied with my level of formal education as it provided enough to launch me into a life-time of self-directed learning, without the other baggage mentioned.

            Human stability has a lot to do with social stability, human values, jobs, technology, geography and even the earth itself. People are destabilized all the time, by events outside their prescience or control, so your question or suggestion that I may not be “stable” (psychological or otherwise) I took to be a little odd. You could be very stable today and less so tomorrow, via any series of events. It’s about as superficial as alpha-predators celebrating their dominant position, their day in the sun, forgetting their own vulnerability & mortality, in other words, meaningless pride. The Bible OT says all life is grass, fuel for the fire. Ecclesiastes said “All is vanity, and the pride of life (egotism.)”

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Why didn’t you expect to hear if from me? Was it because YOU decided I support the system as is? What hubris. The fact that I support changing our tax laws should’ve given you a clue, but I guess that was too much of a leap for a progressive to make.

            As for suits, organized religion, and education, they weren’t observations, they were ad hominem criticisms. Please just be honest. You’re trying to justify you lack of education, which goes to the question I raised about your stability.

            By the way, I don’t believe in magic. I believe God uses concepts in nature that we don’t understand or might not even have a clue exist. So this Christian has no problem with God and Jesus using advanced technology to solve or correct the problems were created. But first comes solving the problems of our minds and hearts.

          • guestimate

            I didn’t expect to hear it from you given your own presumptions, calling me a marxist, communist, yada-yada, suggesting you’re a die-hard capitalist yet you suggest changing the very entity model (corporations) upon which capitalism is based; so no it wasn’t hubris on my part, and yes, organizational people do tend to dress the part. Those weren’t attacks, you’re just being over-sensitive. No really, my education is adequate, though I’ve a way to go before trying say, brain surgery. (LOL) Anyway, formal education degrees are no de-facto ticket through the pearly gates.

            I agree with your remark “no magic.” Super-natural still uses universal principles, just beyond our current understanding of things, and for which humans must prove themselves worthy to be (re)entrusted, or they would do even more damage with it.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Still, you’re being disingenuous. You have a problem with neatly dressed people and with higher education.

            As for you 2nd paragraph, I think we’re in complete agreement. It’s my belief that we’re little more than technological barbarians playing with fire. One doesn’t have to be educated or religious to be moral, even though I might think it helps.

          • guestimate

            Robert:

            Does education bestow capacity to THINK? That would mean the elite, some of the most educated, are most qualified to run things. Do you think John Kerry is a qualified Secretary of State? Harvard, Yale, Skull-&-bones.

            Your second paragraph more or less disproves your first. Yes, we are virtual barbarians technologically (and socially) speaking. Better tech exists but is suppressed by those very elite. So formal education is no guaranty of capacity or competence, only proves you were willing to pay some social dues. And technology that decreases jobs, that must be bad tech because “He who does not work, should not eat.” See the contradiction? Education that bestows real know-how, yeah I would admit that has some value, but not education for its own sake. You might assume the most formally educated would also be the most creative, which is sometimes true, often not.Tesla gave us the industrial world as we know it, straight out of his imagination, not years of college. How educated was Jesus? But you might call him a special case, the Son of God. And that’s why you will never do the things he said you too, could do.

            Neatly dressed people, with countless piled-higher-&-deepers, ostentatiously promenading and posturing. No wonder the world languishes centuries longer than it should have to, for all the educated stupidity. Doesn’t even the Bible mention those persons “forever learning, but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.” Christ’s method was pretty simple– fast and pray. One author from over a century ago said “”The reason miracles are so scarce is because while much praying is done, little fasting is adhered to.” So what’s the longest you’ve ever gone without eating? No it doesn’t prove anything, beyond that you’re trying.

          • Roberto Enrique Benitez

            Your disdain of those who dress neatly and have more education than you do shows a very disturbing personality trait.

            As for your dishonest use of the Scriptures, that’s also very telling. Jesus did a bit more than fasting and praying.

  • tarheel61

    Who’s side are these wingnuts on anyway? IRS able to pull our passport? Really? This country needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom and the sooner the better.

  • rob

    As a resident alien (immigrant) when I wanted to travel outside the country back in the late 60’s you had to get a release from the irs at that time to have the airlines let you board a flight. so this is nothing new, just coming into the forefront of the American public it seems to be something new.

    • Roberto Enrique Benitez

      Good information. Thanks.

  • 1PierreMontagne1

    The IRS takes passports?

    Revocation Power will not stop with the IRS.
    You can expect that soon any DHS member agency (meaning even your local sheriff) will have that power. Also the TSA, and the FAA and EPA
    In fact any agency that decides they do not want you to flee from American law and or American territory. And for no better reason than – “We can do it”!

    May I see your papers will be a request no different than when the SS did the same in Nazi Germany.

    This is what went wrong when all law enforcement agencies in America came under the Homeland Security umbrella during Obama’s reworking of the Patriot act and any amendments thereto.

    America voted for change
    Now America is realizing the words in the song
    “You don’t know what ya got till it’s gone….”

    And America can’t change those words.

  • Wendi Dell

    The IRS has been abusing their power for decades.This new power will only give them something else to use to terrorize US citizens. The IRS are some of the biggest criminals around and congress not only lets them get away with it,they are giving them more power to abuse. The IRS needs to be held accountable for it’s crimes and like the rest of the government needs a major overhaul.

  • sovereigntyofone

    Why is everyone acting like this is something new?
    The IRS has been doing this for at least the last 15 year or more that I know of.
    If you owe them money (back taxes) they tell you that you can’t leave the country (in so many words) until your debt to them has been paid. Now as far as I know they don’t come to your door and demand your passport, they just put your name in the system that you are not to leave.
    Bottom line:
    Why are people just now hearing about it. The IRS doesn’t want you leaving the U.S. or being able to until you pay them what they ” say ” you owe them. Not saying that is right but if you were the IRS you wouldn’t want someone that owes you tons of money sneaking out of the country to avoid paying it.
    Just my 2 cents worth.

  • Howleyesque

    Mr ODUMMER! TEAR DOWN THAT WALL!

  • mitchell

    Siunds like Russia, an they don”t ask no questions,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,